lol, you couldn't be more wrong, all of the battleclinic mods are PvPers.

CAN CCP EXPLAIN TO PLAYERS WHY

HAD PEOPLE SPENT TOO MUTCH TIME

- skiling ...
- spending bilions in skills
- spending years of training
- if one IBIS CAN KILL and ONE TITAN NO


AND KNOW IS f................ the playerS with all this wish to some guys.

IS BETTER SOME GUYS START AND LEARN HOW TO PLAY A GAME, IF NOT THERE IS OTHER KIND OF GAMES
TO THAT PERSONS.

Not if the rock is dreads or sc's ;)

70 bil ship, > 100mil isk ship,
but if you had brouth like 50 dreads you whuld have killed some titans and stil got out on top whould you not?

What is the intended role for titans?

Fleet boosters?
Logistical fleet bridging?
Anti-capital weapons?
Anti-structure weapons?
Anti-subcap blapers?

Please clarify what role the titan is meant to serve, and why it's broken.

i know. because you know lots about PVP
because zergling 1600 man fleet across entire region is real PVP.

the ONLY thing smaller alliances have against nonsense like this kind of a blob was until now to grow some balls and deploy trillions of ISK on the battlefield and try to even the odds.
But that's not real PVP. I know.

CCP Grayscale man... stop embarrassing yourself here saying we don't have time to really deal with this the way it should be. we have no resources for that so we going to deploy the most significant change that will most likely help remove number of alliances from the map without any serious thinking. we will finish this later when goons online is completed.
Until then all of you who spent 120bil buying and fitting a tit go and spend 30bil more so you can get your lock time to around 45 sec.
Its just disrespectful.

While supercaps do need a balancing pass, specifically regarding proper counters to supercaps, I have to say this: Locking a pod takes me 28 seconds. If you still have a pod on the field after 28 seconds, you are probably not even moving, so you have zero transversal. Zero transversal means that any turret ship will kill you. Stop failing at EVE.

According to the last CSM results you were elected CSM Chairman thanks to the votes of 5,365 people, which is 1.53% of the EVE population.

Such an overwhelming majority should indeed allow you to mold the game into whatever you want.

Does ccp not seem to realize that there are only currently 2 ways to counter a vastly numerically Superior force? 1 bombers which die in droves but have some chance but generally arnt that effective in killing 1000 dudes with 200. and the titan blob.

use 50 titans

I would like at this point again to deliver some mathematical basis for any discussion. With current DPS and fast projection of force you can easily imagine around 100-150 dreads deploy to gank your 25 Titans.

150 Dreads cost around 400 Mio each or 60b in total due to insurance, easy production, low-sec construction etc etc ...

25 Titans cost around well 1250 B isk taking the current price of 50b at which some believe they will stop and a large amount of chars bound to the ships, extensive complicated production etc etc ...

Even if in a hypothetical fight 150 dreads all 25 DD where pointed at different targets, you would simply lose around 10b of isk with the shots from the dd's which is actually not such a big deal.

What matters in such a scenario is the fact that with your dreads you only need to take down 2 Titans and you are on the plus side of the equation. Every Titan blowing is additonally a moral factor, bringing more people to the fight.

By changing XL Turrets it becomes hard to hit even a dread, thats not such a big deal since they are in siege. But on the other side hitting a Titan becomes much easier since there is no more Malus from Siege module.

The scan resolution change adds additional help for the dread in that scenario. While the titans will need around 106 Seconds to lock up the dreads, they on the other side can already fire from 30 secs on. Thats about 70 Secs fire without defence on the titan side.

What you are seeing is that older players do like there investments made usless and newer players want to get around older players happens in every game.

Can I have a graph showing how many subs you've lost today CCP? You like graphs so much these days :)

CCP YOU SHORT SIGHTED F***KWITTS

Its no wonder with mittani on the CSM, Lets make the F****G game name Goons Online

Way to go to shaft the old players yet again. First you screw super carriers, now ttians yet again.

Poke you poxy game where the sun doesnt shine,. you dont give a flying f**k about your old player base anyomre.

Sadly but true. But i dont see myself fit into EVE ONLINE anymore, CCP keeps nurfing, nurfing and nurfing.

4 accounts now canceled...

CCP wins, gl with destroying the game !

Perpetuum here i come

Throwing a bunch of subcaps at titans and expecting to win is not even close to being a serious attempt. Fielding a fleet of 200 dreads with carrier and super support would be a serious attempt, and is well within the capabilities of the CFC. I understand well enough why CCP thinks titans must be nerfed, but it is not because of any game-breaking aspects of the titan itself, but of the unwillingness of both actors to engage in a potentially costly capital fight when the results remain uncertain. As I said before, nobody will really know for certain if titans truly are imbalanced until a serious, concerted effort has been made to kill them.

I am no neutral alt, and I still think this is the most dirrect help CCP have given any one alliance in a conflict in eve's history. Not one but 2 nurfs to help you against titans and supercarrier in this war.

If you are going to fix something CCP. Then fix it make it great and awesome in its own right, not a shell of a ship.

What game do you play? No one would every deploy dreads when theres 600 enemy support on the field and they certainly would not do it to kill triage carriers. Triage carriers get alpha'd in that fight. Whoever brings them is basically suiciding carriers (which is fine but it's not an effective use of a carrier).

Also in all my time playing EVE I've never seen a 'fair fight'. 600 vs 600 is mythical, someone will have 800 the other 400. If even numbers do occur, one of them will stand down because "it's just not worth it, we might lose".

EVE has always been about making the other guy commit thinking he will win.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, maybe Colonel O'Neill of STARGATE SG-1 knows more about PvP than me.

Go ahead and refute what I said.

No one is dropping dreads in a support fight to kill triage carriers outside of low sec (where the numbers total in the fight are around the hundred mark)

EXACTLY, thank you, numbers are all that matter now.



Numbers Online, the internet spaceship game.

Dear very important space ship personality,

the main purpose of AE DD was obviously to kill subcaps in large numbers.
The main purpose of focused DD was clearly to be able to kill every ship with one shot (including subcaps).

So as you can see the idea that supercaps should be a pure anti-capital weapon is rather new.

However, I do like that this was changed and do think that supercaps still need balancing. Making them useless is not the solution though.

maybe you should grab one and calculate how many dreads it takes to kill our titans and how long that would take given your current tech income.

but no you should just ignore the best and most viable counter to titans then expect CCP Sound-wave, and CCP Screegs to slobber your rod.

im not trolling Vile rat.

you made a choice to invest your income and time in a specific fleet doctrine, one that vee invented to counter armor hacs and abandons. It was the wrong choice.

Had you been able to field 300 or more dreads there is no FC in his right mind who would have opposed you with titans. Those same dreads can work unsieged like titans and do the same volly damage at the same range as maelstroms.

but this discussion is an academic one as CCP is playing favorites, your CEO has said as much.

OMG, really? You are really, really disturbed son.
So we paid a little more iskie...just a little. A LITTLE ?
You come with 1600 maels and wanna kill 50 titans?

Man, I'd like to have what this guy smoked, seems to be good shite.

Funny way to see it. Well, not funny. Plain stupid. Nothing new. Go back scamming in Jita. Ah, forgot about it, you run a bot for that.

It's still only a short term fix, I think it would make everyone happy if CCP would actually figure out what they want this ship to do and make it enjoyable to fly wheather it serve a non combat or combat role. These "fixes" aren't going to do any good and have the possibility to turn these back into a nonused pos princess which gives no incentive to people to train up it.

Better to restart the server, would that be fair enough for you.

Risk / Reward anyone ever heard this concept, thought it was what this game was suppose to be based on.

Every time we drop them we risk
-Counter drop (trap)
-One bumped titan (thanks for that one CCP)
-Disconnect

And yes we risk all of them, it only takes one very bad day and we lose them all in one go ask RA.

You might not think this, but there are times that we don't use them because the risks involved.

And they need more for titan fix that's is very clear. So i see no difference making bad fix to one or the other.

Want my ship to have a role, that's not a once in every 2 months role. Kinda stuck in a titan.

you really thing this is a good solution. make money buy another char, park titan. you really that selfish that you can't even agree on the fact that they should be allowed to dock, and if the new role comes that we could chose not to fly them if we don't like it and get our skills back.

Your right. A Titan is not the end game for everyone. But you are a fool if you think that the majority of pilots do not view it as such.

The game is ever changing and evolving, but until you show me something beyond a Titan then that is the ceiling.

CCP has never thought of what new players would think of EvE after playing for several months, play around in a battleship class ships and realize, that there is nothing more to achieve

1) manufactureres - i build from frigate sized ships to carriers and dreads and modules. i think i can finish all that in about year.
2) traders - isk isk isk..and with those isk, what do i buy? currently being used and that are most expensive ships i can think of..carrier, dreads. nah.. that's just too easy i think i'd rather rmt.
3) researchers - almost same with manufactureres and traders.
4) freedom fighters(aka pvp'ers) - ok! i've finally acuired carrier/dread now time to shoot and repair structures! oh forgot that i can rat in a carrier!
5) bounty hunters - wtf is this ****
6) miner - most exciting content in eve! hear the calming sound wave of mining modules activating! oh wait AH HELL, I JUST GOT HULKAGEDDONED!
7) planetary industralist - i've finished every content of it in less than a month! yay i think im so good at this game!
8) explorer - scan, loot nothing, get frustrated, scan, loot nothing, scan, loot nothing, scan, fu*k i just lost my tengu! screw this, i'm buying plex to buy another tengu. scan, loot, somthing decent, happy, scan, loot nothing, scan, loot somthing decent, scan, ganked.
9) loyalist - uh which alliance should i join..um..i think Gooswarm is the strongest alliance in the game. maybe i'll give it a try. flys rifters/canes/maelstroms, shoots structure for longer than the time pvp'ing, start to think where all the taxes and the moon minerals go. gets explained by mittani that all of those isk are for reimbursing combat ships. but i payed for the ship and the modules to pvp and i get insurance that covers more than half of the price of the loss!
10) fleet commander - i cant FC.. im terrible at eve
11) empire builder - there are already more than enough of them! without a miracle, it's impossible!

all we need now are some sun tzu quotes, ww2 analogies and it's hi5s all around

Here's a though,

Keep the lock timer the same, and triple the sig size of carriers and dreads + supers. What would that negatively impact?

Since all guns should be able to capitals, including super caps vs capitals, just blow up the sig size. Right now, MWD based drakes, and battleships have similar sizes to capitals ships...

This is the problem, and a simple solution. Everything else is very reasonable in this context. However, titans should not take 30 seconds to lock a carrier or a dread, it should be almost instant.

How are these titans tackling you guys? No chance in hell I would get in point range of one, much less scram and web.

you are all missing main point of current game mechanics that is broken.
Every fleet based on numbers has it's counter based on SP and ISK. Bringing 100 rifters with logistics will be countered by bringing 20 vagabonds with less logistics.
So let's assume Fleet A is T1 frigate, Fleet B is Hacs, Fleet C is battleships. So every fleet can be countered by fleet of less size but higher SP, u can always field something that requires less numbers but more SP/ISK and that something will be only like 1 rank higher then hostile fleet .
This is how it looks like: frigs > cruisers > BCs > BS > Capitals > Supercapitals > Titans. Current mechanics is good up intil BS. there is a huuuuuge gap between BS and titan. U can say that capitals are under powered and that's why they are not used or state that titans and supers are overpowered and should be nerfed. In any case this is not solving major issue - Gap between BS and a Titan. Fill that missing point and game become much better.

I've to admit - CCP Sucks in game balance. I remember same way ppl where whining about atlas capitals, so ccp created another ship to counter them. After ppl were whining about supers, now titans. in any case tweaking 1 certain ship will never fix game. If you want to fix something to and review all ships that are affected by tracking titans. I would also say that Signature stuff is kinda bullshit, ship size doesn't change by turning MWD on. So how can missile do more damage to same ship w MWD on and less damage w MWD off?

No, counter blob of titan with Sieged dreads (still needs a buff) and support fleet.

looks like you really don't understand my point or u just don't want to understand what I'm talking about. Once again I'm saying that there is a gap that should be filled. removing a role from ship and leaving that role empty is silly.

Just as any other nerf players will have to adapt to what CCP has for them.Drone nerf from supercarriers,now another titan nerf,tomorrow a tengu nerf because the worse side of players cant field 500+ everyday to blap them and who knows what else.

For over a year i am watching goons crying for various things in game,all of them having to do with them dying over and over..
CCP has already chose the side that will be supported.You have to be realistic about it and move on just as every other nerf(aka goon boosts).

For some players,this game has to do with planning,gaining ISK,spending them to buy new toys,buy new characters like this character created back in 2003 and is used a an "alt" from a 2008 player.Getting "better" in this game is different for all of us.

Lets just take CCP's place for a moment.They have 2 conflicting sides in this game.The one that seeks in game improvement and the other side that is heavily roleplaying and counts on it to play.I ve been in other games before EVE and if CCP doesnt take steps to sustain the roleplaying side the game will die itself.Most of you will propably say that goons should "gtfo and send ISK" before they do but here is the problem:the typical goon grunt doesnt have ISK to give.

What they do have though is real life money wich is what keeps this game ticking.So yeah,dont expect any counter to blob,the future has more and more things to favour them.So we are now in that tear circle where the worse players cry because they lose and the better players have to adapt everytime CCP is boosting.

Lets see whats next to be nerfed

No. I'm just a bit confused how titans are able to tackle you guys when you said they didn't bring any support. With all those officer sensor boosters and officer tracking computers, is there room for tackle too?

"If we can't have godmobiles, then why don't we all just fly rifters?"

WOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Such a terrible argument.

100+ pages of confirmation that Eve shouldn't be designed for 500 elite pvp, no-life, turbonerds who will only play if they can be invincible.

Supercaps were a game-killing dead-end, and the policy decision to reverse that game development path has been made. All you guys are doing is screaming into the void as the rest of the game moves on to a brighter future for the 99.999% of players who aren't total social rejects.

Let me explain this in a very simple way :

Nerfing Titan and cap ships that bad, forces a high skilled player to go back to subcap ships. No reason to fly again a cap ship as long as they are nerfed big time. A high skilled player already been thru sub capital skills and prolly learned most of them. Next challenge for him is a capital ship. No challenge anymore now.

Titans are nothing without support, a single interdictor can nail him down forever. A 30 mil ship with fit included keeps a 100 bill ship in place. A few mil SP against 100+ mil SP.

A titan in the field is tank fitted, Anyone that has a titan knows that hits like shite without tracking and damage mods. Either you tank and have 20-30 mil EHP, either you go tracking/damage and have 3-4 mil EHP. I guess just a few would risk a titan to go in the field with 3-4 mil EHP, that's double a dread has. Dread = ~2,5 bil Titan = ~100 bil not including the fit.

A dread is inflicting more damage than a Titan tracking and damage fitted ! What to say about a tanked Titan
I can't see where is the threat.

Goons want people to go back to T1 frigates ? Those times are past long time ago. They just need to adapt and fight instead of whining like retards. This is not 2003, it's 2012, it's absolutely normal to have high end characters/ships and fight with them.

Nerfing Titans will give goons a big advantage as they can put up 1.000 ships or more. Where's the small alliances advantage? There's none, don't bother to look. On the contrary...

You don't need to be a scientist and fill the post with numbers and equations. You just need to play the game to see how it is

You are just killing alot of people's dream. To fly the mother of all ships.

Dread = ~2,5 bil Titan = ~100 bil not including the fit.

Honestly i don't think this is the "right" way to fix it.

The titans should present a viable threat to an enemy fleet.

You can link many killmails and say different things, but you all will be wrong. As one guy already posted in this thread: You cannot balance 70 billion ship vs 200 million ship. With same success you can try to balance Lamborghini vs Volkswagen Golf.
Any attempt that you make will fail since it will be wrong from very beginning. CCP should balance titans and supers against capitas and balance capitals against subcaps. that is the main point.

More tracking = less tank maybe?

More tracking = easier to gank maybe?

More tracking = greater risk of losing the ship to a half thought out fleet composition that, surprisingly, is cap heavy?

And did you miss the rest of the titans in that battle report? They could have been there from anytime tho

My Rag has a 68 mm scan resolution. With 3 Cormack Sebos I have 296mm

Without any sensor booster, I target a Dramiel in 33 sec.

With a Shadow Serpentis sebo I target in 20 sec.
With a Cormack Sebo it takes 18 sec
With 2 Cormack Sebo it takes 11 Sec
With 3 Cormack Sebo it takes 8 sec

Without any sensor booster, I target a Nightmare in 13 sec

With a Cormack Sebo it takes 8 sec
With 2 Cormack Sebos it takes 4 sec
With 3 Cormack Sebo it takes less than 3 sec

Now, getting scan resolution from 68 to 5, imagine how much it will take to target a frigate. With TiDi on, you have time to take a bath, eat, watch a movie, sleep, wake up, take a shower then check if your target is locked. Meh, it's not there anymore. he's in his home system. For a long time now. But tomorrow is another day, you can try to lock something again. Make sure you got everything you need: food, water/beer/scotch, movies and popcorn ofc

Oh crap, I can't hit anything cos my tracking is halved. nevermind, going back to the movie.